Monsignor Stanislav Hočevar, the Belgrade Archbishop, uses words very carefully and in a measured manner.
For over two decades, which he has spent in Serbia, he has been tirelessly advocating dialogue – which sometimes has not been either simple or easy – but perhaps one of his earlier statements is the best testimony of that fact: "When I arrived in Belgrade, I felt like a black sheep in public, in public meetings, and at social functions. So many eyes would silently be asking me, as if trying to tell me, 'What are you doing here?', 'The Vatican is to blame for everything'… And now there are many individuals and groups who are aware that there is no future without a dialogue between the East and the West."
The time he had spent in Belgrade and his championing of dialogue were some of the topics in his interview with Kurir, in which he also touched on the cooperation with the Serbian Orthodox Church (SOC) and Patriarch Porfirije, the possibility of Pope Francis visiting Serbia, as well as Jasenovac and the controversial Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac.
After 22 years in Belgrade, your official term in Serbia's capital will soon draw to an end. Are you happy with what you have achieved? What would you say is your biggest success?
"Thank you for inviting me to have this interview. The word 'soon' that you used can be interpreted differently within the church community – the church, like a legal community, has some clear plans, but as God's institution, it also acknowledges other 'masters' of time. I certainly thank the Lord from the bottom of my heart for being allowed to serve him and the church – a community of God's people – in the area of the Belgrade Archdiocese. During my time here, the Lord has on many an occasion opened many a door for me. For me personally, it is a source of great happiness that I can see before me, for instance, so many newly published books; then there are the decisions of our First Synod; our inclusion in the society; and especially our connection to the SOC. Our new Marianum Pastoral Centre in Hadži-Milentijeva Street rose as an external sign of all this, with a magnificent mosaic of the Transfiguration of Jesus and the sculpture of Pope Saint John XXIII. These truly are the prophetic signposts of our future…"
Is there an area where you could have done more?
"I always deeply regret not being able to help more so many individuals or communities stricken with severe hardships. The lack of time and a more intensive dialogue – to give you an example, we don't have an inter-religious council here – has often prevented me from finding better and more comprehensive solutions, primarily in attaining reconciliation amongst the peoples. Many things can only be achieved if there is an appropriate infrastructure or a network…"
You arrived here in 2000. Could you compare Belgrade then and Belgrade today?
"Yes and no – some things in life are visible, others aren't. There is no doubt that the city of Belgrade's manifest image has become very new and attractive in every respect! At the same time, it should be mentioned that many great traditions are dying out – for instance in the relations between the Orthodox and Catholic Christians. Furthermore, the young people of today bear the marks of these new times, and the feeling that Belgrade is a space where the East and the West come together, that Belgrade is a bridge, that it has an 'open gate' in its coat of arms, is gone – which is something we discussed at great length with students in the early 21st century. Having said that, it must also be acknowledged that nowadays the relations between all the inhabitants of Belgrade are generally better than when I arrived. Back then, you could feel the consequences of the 1990s, while now we are establishing truly good relations and cooperation at the level of the Church and the state, primarily as regards the exchange of cultural and civilizational goods. What makes me especially happy is the need on the part of so many intellectuals for more intensive meetings, for a new approach to Christianity and the Christian values. It is in this sense that there are new prospects for Serbia to take on a greater role in promoting the Christian values in Europe. Belgrade and its 'genius loci' – Ušće (The Confluence) – seem cut out to do just that."
What has your cooperation with the SOC Patriarch Porfirije been like?
"I am thankful to God's Providence for sending us the former Metropolitan of Zagreb and Ljubljana, Father Porfirije, as the new SOC Patriarch. His versatile and comprehensive preparation for serving the Church and, through the Church, the world, is impressive. We have come to know each other well and cooperated immediately following my arrival in Belgrade. I can see that he is extraordinarily busy at the moment, so I pray to the Lord to help us find the time to make our common wishes and visions true for the benefit of the people of God and the world in general."
One of the open questions between the Catholic Church and the SOC is the canonization of the controversial Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac. Croatia submitted to the Vatican a request to declare him a saint, and the Serbian Church contests it. As a result, the Pope has established The Combined Catholic and Orthodox Commission, which has looked into the historical role of Stepinac before, during, and after World War II. What is your view on this issue?
"I view this issue in an explicitly Biblical spirit. The Lord is the only master of time. All of humanity must reconsider why it is that wars take place, especially the two bloodiest ones: The Great (First) and Second World War. These events lack any logic and are entirely irrational. In such a chaos, there are only a few who could live in line with logic and in a consistent way. Such a person becomes a martyr immediately and unavoidably.
"Furthermore, if us Christians were pressing for unity harder, we would have prevented and pre-empted many things. Unfortunately, however, we don't do that. It's the same today!
"This is why for me as a human being it is regretful and pathetic to be concerned with so many individual effects even as we do not examine the great causes of tragedies.. We have all become so destructive that we relish in numerous personal and collective hardships in the media without ever wanting to fix the foundations of our HOUSE – our HOME – the universe that we live in! This is why not only do we have the tragedies of wars now, but also the tragedies of horrific environmental disasters. If we don't come to our senses soon, new tragedies will befall humanity. Nature knows no mercy… Pope Francis has seen all of that clearly, and this is why he invites us to make the strategic decisions in good time."
You once asked if the SOC and all the conferences of bishops from the former Yugoslavia have the strength to sit down together at the table of dialogue. So, what do you think – do they? What would such a dialogue bring to the region?
"Sadly, for the time being, they do not. My previous answer and the answer to this question reveal the necessity of acknowledging that, as people, we are very slow to mature. It is obviously necessary for us, as we go through many hardships, to put up barricades of sorts on the tracks that the trains of history are racing along. In our society – because we all mock Christianity a little bit – there are no prophets; and even if there were any, they would be stoned. This is why we prefer legitimizing various forms of narcissism and consumerism.
"Our honest mutual dialogue would bring reconciliation of the peoples, churches, and communities. In short, everyone would be happy for their neighbour's success. Now, on the other hand, we still have the old saying about gloating over your neighbour's misery…"
Does the society lack more dialogue in a more general sense? Have we forgotten how to listen to each other?
"Yes, you're right – we very much lack dialogue. But we will listen to one another only if we see each other in the right way, if we have the right understanding of human beings as such. The power of faith, Christian above all else, lies in the fact that we see the icon of Jesus Christ in our neighbour. Over the course of history, that icon has often been erased, stained, or twisted in some individuals as a result of sin. But we can clean it, we can make it authentic – and that is possible solely through Jesus's authentic love. Until we do that, we will never listen to each other sincerely, let alone hear the message that our neighbour is sending to us in the name of the Lord."
Are there any hurdles that might prevent the Pope from finally visiting Serbia?
"I don't see any hurdles. I find it amazing that so many non-Catholics approach me and suggest that we do something for the Pope to visit. But it is a well-known fact where the keys to that are…"
It has been said by the SOC in previous years that the head of the Roman Catholic Church ought to bow to pay respects to the victims of Jasenovac. Do you agree with that?
"I remember well the voices that you mention, and I recognize each and every one of them when I hear it. First they talk about Jasenovac, then about EuroPride, and then about who knows what.
"That said, there is no question that the existence of such voices only confirms the many hard challenges and the veritable abundance of very sensitive situations in life. This confirms and convincingly testifies to the fact that a true and honest dialogue is our 'daily bread', and yet we don't eat it, often dying of hunger and cramps.
"So allow me to expand your question by a little bit – perhaps in an overly subjective fashion. The Lord has showered me with many meetings with people, as well as frequent confessions in the European, North-American, and South-American continents. I have heard the confessions of witnesses of World War II and everything that followed. I did the same even in various Yugoslavian prisons… In addition, I have freed people of the 1990s 'darkness', even those who had gone to other continents owing to their 'expertise', to make their problematic 'contribution' there too. Just to think of the horrors and the secrets!
"Perhaps you and the general public are unaware that myself and Patriarch Pavle visited the numerous memorials of that torturous and harrowing past, facing so many sensitive situations. This is why we stopped talking too much, but we gave ourselves in to the Lord's goodness, the only guarantor of hope and, hence, the future…
"In this understanding of the state of human souls, we priests discover clearly to what extent each human being is great and irreplaceable. And what lofty path lies ahead of each and every one of them, even in those 'factories of death.' The path leading towards the opening of that human being up to its true nature, to his or her God, but also – in his or her death – to unite with him and so live forever. We, therefore, do not bow down to pay our respects to the dead – like heathens; rather, we aim to lift up the human being to the domain of eternity.
"As a whole, humanity is a wide and open path, full of rapids and meanderings, with so many traffic accidents. And when accidents do happen, then we take the wounded silently and as quickly as we can off to heal, and never investigate who is to blame, searching for the safest way for them to heal instead…
"As a priest, it pains me when people only ask me about the sins and crimes of the other side and what they should do about it… I am not afraid to say this, because it's the easiest thing to do – I myself and my family have suffered horrific transgressions. But I will not enumerate them.
"I don't wish to open new wounds by pointing fingers at other culprits. Instead, I will open up to healing others.
"There is no doubt that the job of the interdisciplinary commissions, consisting of great and carefully chosen experts, is to investigate everything closely and suggest ways to reconcile. This is not the business of the street, or the daily media.
"The Holy Father thus takes exceptional steps, not in front of the global TV cameras, but in reality. History can expect more from us than bowing down to pay respects."
What has the world learnt from the Russian-Ukrainian war, or rather, what lessons could it learn? Is this war in some sense the defeat of civilization?
"I don't exactly notice that we are really learning anything. Just look at how completely contradictory news comes every day from the warring sides, and how many hired guns promote 'real and true visions' according to the orders of their masterminds. Let me reiterate this: for as long as there is not authentic dialogue, the kind I described above, for as long as the Christians don't ask for unity, for as long as the actors of war operations put profit first, rather than the general good of people, for as long as we are not accepting God's clear plan that humanity as a whole is a single family – as we have one and the same Creator – we will continue waging wars, seeking to be first, and trying to make our mark as important protagonists in the new world order. Yes, the fact that 'the whole world' now calls for respecting the right to hold EuroPride, and not rectifying so many wrongs and stopping the killing of so many people, speaks volumes about this world and how far it has come along…"
Boban Karović
